How to spot a liar | Pamela Meyer

Okay, now I don’t want
to alarm anybody in this room, but it’s just come to my attention
that the person to your right is a liar. (Laughter) Also, the person to your left is a liar. Also the person sitting
in your very seats is a liar. We’re all liars. What I’m going to do today is I’m going to show you what the research
says about why we’re all liars, how you can become a liespotter and why you might want
to go the extra mile and go from liespotting to truth seeking, and ultimately to trust building. Now, speaking of trust, ever since I wrote
this book, “Liespotting,” no one wants to meet me in person
anymore, no, no, no, no, no. They say, “It’s okay, we’ll email you.” (Laughter) I can’t even get
a coffee date at Starbucks. My husband’s like, “Honey, deception? Maybe you could have focused on cooking.
How about French cooking?” So before I get started,
what I’m going to do is I’m going to clarify my goal for you, which is not to teach a game of Gotcha. Liespotters aren’t those nitpicky kids, those kids in the back of the room
that are shouting, “Gotcha! Gotcha! Your eyebrow twitched.
You flared your nostril. I watch that TV show ‘Lie To Me.’
I know you’re lying.” No, liespotters are armed with scientific knowledge
of how to spot deception. They use it to get to the truth, and they do what mature
leaders do everyday; they have difficult conversations
with difficult people, sometimes during very difficult times. And they start up that path
by accepting a core proposition, and that proposition is the following: Lying is a cooperative act. Think about it, a lie has no power
whatsoever by its mere utterance. Its power emerges when someone else agrees
to believe the lie. So I know it may sound like tough love, but look, if at some point
you got lied to, it’s because you agreed to get lied to. Truth number one about lying:
Lying’s a cooperative act. Now not all lies are harmful. Sometimes we’re willing
participants in deception for the sake of social dignity, maybe to keep a secret that should
be kept secret, secret. We say, “Nice song.” “Honey, you don’t look fat in that, no.” Or we say, favorite of the digiratti, “You know, I just fished
that email out of my Spam folder. So sorry.” But there are times when we are unwilling
participants in deception. And that can have dramatic costs for us. Last year saw 997 billion dollars in corporate fraud alone
in the United States. That’s an eyelash
under a trillion dollars. That’s seven percent of revenues. Deception can cost billions. Think Enron, Madoff, the mortgage crisis. Or in the case
of double agents and traitors, like Robert Hanssen or Aldrich Ames, lies can betray our country, they can compromise our security,
they can undermine democracy, they can cause the deaths
of those that defend us. Deception is actually serious business. This con man, Henry Oberlander,
he was such an effective con man, British authorities say he could have undermined the entire
banking system of the Western world. And you can’t find this guy on Google;
you can’t find him anywhere. He was interviewed once,
and he said the following. He said, “Look, I’ve got one rule.” And this was Henry’s rule, he said, “Look, everyone is willing
to give you something. They’re ready to give you something
for whatever it is they’re hungry for.” And that’s the crux of it. If you don’t want to be
deceived, you have to know, what is it that you’re hungry for? And we all kind of hate to admit it. We wish we were
better husbands, better wives, smarter, more powerful, taller, richer — the list goes on. Lying is an attempt to bridge that gap, to connect our wishes and our fantasies about who we wish we were,
how we wish we could be, with what we’re really like. And boy are we willing to fill in
those gaps in our lives with lies. On a given day, studies show
that you may be lied to anywhere from 10 to 200 times. Now granted, many of those are white lies. But in another study, it showed that strangers lied three times within the first 10 minutes
of meeting each other. (Laughter) Now when we first hear
this data, we recoil. We can’t believe how prevalent lying is. We’re essentially against lying. But if you look more closely,
the plot actually thickens. We lie more to strangers
than we lie to coworkers. Extroverts lie more than introverts. Men lie eight times more about themselves
than they do other people. Women lie more to protect other people. If you’re an average married couple, you’re going to lie to your spouse
in one out of every 10 interactions. Now, you may think that’s bad. If you’re unmarried,
that number drops to three. Lying’s complex. It’s woven into the fabric
of our daily and our business lives. We’re deeply ambivalent about the truth. We parse it out on an as-needed basis, sometimes for very good reasons, other times just because
we don’t understand the gaps in our lives. That’s truth number two about lying. We’re against lying, but we’re covertly for it in ways that our society has sanctioned
for centuries and centuries and centuries. It’s as old as breathing. It’s part of our culture,
it’s part of our history. Think Dante, Shakespeare,
the Bible, News of the World. (Laughter) Lying has evolutionary value
to us as a species. Researchers have long known
that the more intelligent the species, the larger the neocortex, the more likely it is to be deceptive. Now you might remember Koko. Does anybody remember Koko the gorilla
who was taught sign language? Koko was taught to communicate
via sign language. Here’s Koko with her kitten. It’s her cute little, fluffy pet kitten. Koko once blamed her pet kitten
for ripping a sink out of the wall. (Laughter) We’re hardwired to become
leaders of the pack. It’s starts really, really early. How early? Well babies will fake a cry, pause, wait to see who’s coming and then go right back to crying. One-year-olds learn concealment. (Laughter) Two-year-olds bluff. Five-year-olds lie outright. They manipulate via flattery. Nine-year-olds, masters of the cover-up. By the time you enter college, you’re going to lie to your mom
in one out of every five interactions. By the time we enter this work world
and we’re breadwinners, we enter a world that is just cluttered
with Spam, fake digital friends, partisan media, ingenious identity thieves, world-class Ponzi schemers, a deception epidemic — in short, what one author calls
a post-truth society. It’s been very confusing
for a long time now. What do you do? Well, there are steps we can take
to navigate our way through the morass. Trained liespotters get to the truth
90 percent of the time. The rest of us,
we’re only 54 percent accurate. Why is it so easy to learn? There are good liars and bad liars. There are no real original liars. We all make the same mistakes.
We all use the same techniques. So what I’m going to do is I’m going
to show you two patterns of deception. And then we’re going
to look at the hot spots and see if we can find them ourselves. We’re going to start with speech. (Video) Bill Clinton:
I want you to listen to me. I’m going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations
with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie,
not a single time, never. And these allegations are false. And I need to go back to work
for the American people. Thank you. (Applause) Pamela Meyer: Okay,
what were the telltale signs? Well first we heard what’s known
as a non-contracted denial. Studies show that people
who are overdetermined in their denial will resort to formal rather
than informal language. We also heard
distancing language: “that woman.” We know that liars will unconsciously
distance themselves from their subject, using language as their tool. Now if Bill Clinton had said,
“Well, to tell you the truth …” or Richard Nixon’s favorite,
“In all candor …” he would have been a dead giveaway for any liespotter that knows that qualifying language, as it’s called,
qualifying language like that, further discredits the subject. Now if he had repeated
the question in its entirety, or if he had peppered his account
with a little too much detail — and we’re all really glad
he didn’t do that — he would have further discredited himself. Freud had it right. Freud said, look,
there’s much more to it than speech: “No mortal can keep a secret. If his lips are silent,
he chatters with his fingertips.” And we all do it no matter
how powerful you are. We all chatter with our fingertips. I’m going to show you
Dominique Strauss-Kahn with Obama who’s chattering with his fingertips. (Laughter) Now this brings us to our next pattern,
which is body language. With body language,
here’s what you’ve got to do. You’ve really got to just throw
your assumptions out the door. Let the science temper
your knowledge a little bit. Because we think liars
fidget all the time. Well guess what, they’re known to freeze
their upper bodies when they’re lying. We think liars won’t look you in the eyes. Well guess what, they look
you in the eyes a little too much just to compensate for that myth. We think warmth and smiles
convey honesty, sincerity. But a trained liespotter
can spot a fake smile a mile away. Can you all spot the fake smile here? You can consciously contract
the muscles in your cheeks. But the real smile’s in the eyes,
the crow’s feet of the eyes. They cannot be consciously contracted, especially if you overdid the Botox. Don’t overdo the Botox;
nobody will think you’re honest. Now we’re going to look at the hot spots. Can you tell what’s happening
in a conversation? Can you start to find the hot spots to see the discrepancies between someone’s words
and someone’s actions? Now, I know it seems really obvious, but when you’re having a conversation
with someone you suspect of deception, attitude is by far the most overlooked
but telling of indicators. An honest person
is going to be cooperative. They’re going to show
they’re on your side. They’re going to be enthusiastic. They’re going to be willing and helpful
to getting you to the truth. They’re going to be willing
to brainstorm, name suspects, provide details. They’re going to say, “Hey, maybe it was those guys in payroll
that forged those checks.” They’re going to be infuriated
if they sense they’re wrongly accused throughout the entire course
of the interview, not just in flashes; they’ll be infuriated throughout
the entire course of the interview. And if you ask someone honest what should happen
to whomever did forge those checks, an honest person is much more likely to recommend strict rather
than lenient punishment. Now let’s say you’re having
that exact same conversation with someone deceptive. That person may be withdrawn, look down, lower their voice, pause, be kind of herky-jerky. Ask a deceptive person
to tell their story, they’re going to pepper it
with way too much detail in all kinds of irrelevant places. And then they’re going to tell their story
in strict chronological order. And what a trained interrogator does is they come in and in very subtle ways
over the course of several hours, they will ask that person
to tell that story backwards, and then they’ll watch them squirm, and track which questions produce
the highest volume of deceptive tells. Why do they do that?
Well, we all do the same thing. We rehearse our words, but we rarely rehearse our gestures. We say “yes,” we shake our heads “no.” We tell very convincing stories,
we slightly shrug our shoulders. We commit terrible crimes, and we smile at the delight
in getting away with it. Now, that smile is known
in the trade as “duping delight.” And we’re going to see that
in several videos moving forward, but we’re going to start —
for those of you who don’t know him, this is presidential
candidate John Edwards who shocked America by fathering
a child out of wedlock. We’re going to see him talk
about getting a paternity test. See now if you can spot him
saying, “yes” while shaking his head “no,” slightly shrugging his shoulders. (Video) John Edwards: I’d be happy
to participate in one. I know that it’s not possible
that this child could be mine, because of the timing of events. So I know it’s not possible. Happy to take a paternity test,
and would love to see it happen. Interviewer: Are you going to do
that soon? Is there somebody — JE: Well, I’m only one side.
I’m only one side of the test. But I’m happy to participate in one. PM: Okay, those head shakes
are much easier to spot once you know to look for them. There are going to be times
when someone makes one expression while masking another that just
kind of leaks through in a flash. Murderers are known to leak sadness. Your new joint venture partner
might shake your hand, celebrate, go out to dinner with you
and then leak an expression of anger. And we’re not all going to become
facial expression experts overnight here, but there’s one I can teach you
that’s very dangerous and it’s easy to learn, and that’s the expression of contempt. Now with anger, you’ve got
two people on an even playing field. It’s still somewhat
of a healthy relationship. But when anger turns to contempt,
you’ve been dismissed. It’s associated with moral superiority. And for that reason, it’s very,
very hard to recover from. Here’s what it looks like. It’s marked by one lip corner
pulled up and in. It’s the only asymmetrical expression. And in the presence of contempt,
whether or not deception follows — and it doesn’t always follow — look the other way,
go the other direction, reconsider the deal, say, “No thank you. I’m not coming up
for just one more nightcap. Thank you.” Science has surfaced
many, many more indicators. We know, for example, we know liars will shift their blink rate, point their feet towards an exit. They will take barrier objects and put them between themselves
and the person that is interviewing them. They’ll alter their vocal tone, often making their vocal tone much lower. Now here’s the deal. These behaviors are just behaviors. They’re not proof of deception. They’re red flags. We’re human beings. We make deceptive flailing gestures
all over the place all day long. They don’t mean anything
in and of themselves. But when you see clusters
of them, that’s your signal. Look, listen, probe,
ask some hard questions, get out of that very comfortable
mode of knowing, walk into curiosity mode,
ask more questions, have a little dignity, treat the person
you’re talking to with rapport. Don’t try to be like those folks
on “Law & Order” and those other TV shows that pummel their subjects
into submission. Don’t be too aggressive, it doesn’t work. Now, we’ve talked a little bit
about how to talk to someone who’s lying and how to spot a lie. And as I promised, we’re now going
to look at what the truth looks like. But I’m going to show you two videos, two mothers — one is lying,
one is telling the truth. And these were surfaced by researcher
David Matsumoto in California. And I think they’re an excellent example
of what the truth looks like. This mother, Diane Downs, shot her kids at close range, drove them to the hospital
while they bled all over the car, claimed a scraggy-haired stranger did it. And you’ll see when you see the video, she can’t even pretend
to be an agonizing mother. What you want to look for here
is an incredible discrepancy between horrific events that she describes
and her very, very cool demeanor. And if you look closely, you’ll see
duping delight throughout this video. (Video) Diane Downs:
At night when I close my eyes, I can see Christie reaching
her hand out to me while I’m driving, and the blood just kept
coming out of her mouth. And that — maybe
it’ll fade too with time — but I don’t think so. That bothers me the most. PM: Now I’m going to show you a video of an actual grieving mother,
Erin Runnion, confronting her daughter’s murderer
and torturer in court. Here you’re going to see no false emotion, just the authentic expression
of a mother’s agony. (Video) Erin Runnion:
I wrote this statement on the third anniversary
of the night you took my baby, and you hurt her, and you crushed her, you terrified her until her heart stopped. And she fought, and I know she fought you. But I know she looked at you
with those amazing brown eyes, and you still wanted to kill her. And I don’t understand it, and I never will. PM: Okay, there’s no doubting
the veracity of those emotions. Now the technology
around what the truth looks like is progressing on, the science of it. We know, for example, that we now have specialized eye trackers
and infrared brain scans, MRI’s that can decode the signals
that our bodies send out when we’re trying to be deceptive. And these technologies are going
to be marketed to all of us as panaceas for deceit, and they will prove
incredibly useful some day. But you’ve got to ask yourself
in the meantime: Who do you want on your side
of the meeting, someone who’s trained
in getting to the truth or some guy who’s going to drag
a 400-pound electroencephalogram through the door? Liespotters rely on human tools. They know, as someone once said, “Character’s who you are in the dark.” And what’s kind of interesting
is that today, we have so little darkness. Our world is lit up 24 hours a day. It’s transparent
with blogs and social networks broadcasting the buzz
of a whole new generation of people that have made a choice to live
their lives in public. It’s a much more noisy world. So one challenge we have is to remember, oversharing, that’s not honesty. Our manic tweeting and texting
can blind us to the fact that the subtleties
of human decency — character integrity — that’s still what matters,
that’s always what’s going to matter. So in this much noisier world, it might make sense for us to be just a little bit more explicit
about our moral code. When you combine the science
of recognizing deception with the art of looking, listening, you exempt yourself
from collaborating in a lie. You start up that path
of being just a little bit more explicit, because you signal to everyone around you, you say, “Hey, my world, our world,
it’s going to be an honest one. My world is going to be
one where truth is strengthened and falsehood is recognized
and marginalized.” And when you do that, the ground around you starts
to shift just a little bit. And that’s the truth. Thank you. (Applause)

About the author


  1. Thank you! I know in my heart, when I am honest all the time, I never have to worry about being called a liar. People that know me, know I am always honest. And this is a FACT.

  2. However, some of the tips for detecting a liar do not apply to autistic people. For exemple, lack of eye contact can be interpreted as a person is lying, but autistic person often dont make eye contact…

  3. Why bother spotting them? Liars are weak, and if you are involved with them, you are probably doing something wrong yourself.

  4. All this works only when you compare the behavior of the same person while talking of something else that you know they are sincere about. Comparing person's behavior with someone else, someone that behaves the way you EXPECT them to is counterproductive. It only could be successful by chance.

  5. The best liars are manipulators and you'll find them by the millions in churches — organized religion — and schools, the entire system of government, politicians, media enterprises, so-called justice system, particularly police officers and lawyers, not to mention corporations, organizations and charities, as well as families and well, everywhere

  6. People lie to us all the time. You and I lie to others all the time. We lie to each other all the time. In fact, according to studies by several different researchers, most of us encounter nearly two hundred lies a day (most of it are harmless lies, by the way). That's 200 times per day! That means if you get to sleep 8 hours per day, you're likely been on the receiving end of about 12 lines per hour.

    According to one study found that over a one-week period, lies were detected in 37% of phone calls, 27% of face-to-face meetings, 21% of IM chats, and 14% of e-mails. There are many more facts about lying that if I were to list down it here, you'll soon think that I'm lying to you! Whatever happened to the 9th Commandment? "We have to trust to survive," writes Meyer, "[but] paradoxically, we have to lie to survive as well." 

    To read my review of Pamela Meyer's Liespotting: Proven Techniques to Detect Deception (2010), CLICK HERE:


    My way is way faster. I am to the point where I can actually smell them within about 10 feet or so.

  8. When a person lies they have to tell another lie… it's normal… life is not black and white.. the biggest lie is lying to yourself… and when you tell the truth nobody believes you anyway! 😉

  9. anyone else annoyed when you're listening to a Ted talk and you hear the mouth noises? That always bothers me lol

  10. a lot of her accounts have been proven to be false as well. for instance, honest people are not always cooperative. they may just be distrustful. she is referring to interrogations and questioning but we all know how the justice system works (THEY'RE FUCKING LIARS). it's pretty obvious whose side she is on.

  11. To believe is "Not" to know.. God is the only Truth..Therefore I believe.
    You create whatever you truly believe and "We" where "All" .."Created by the "Creator" to be "Creative".

  12. This is all bs because it’s all very subjective. So you spot one liar or 10 and see familiarity in their behavior, but that does not mean anything because non liars do those things too. And people shake their heads when saying yes all the time, I know I do. Matter of fact if I am shaking my head while stating a positive fact, it means that there is no doubt in my mind that what I am saying is true.

    People grow up and develop very unique behavioral gestures. Many mimic their parents or friends. To stand there and say that some gesture is in any way related to lying is very nearsighted logic.

    This woman and other degenerate psychologists like her think they know everything, yet they know nothing. Psychology is still a very undiscovered purely theoretical social science. It’s based on theories and ideas, not in facts. It’s subjective. You can’t prove or disprove these theories unless you do extremely controlled and high quality testing a which in social sciences rarely happen.

    And note that all liars that these liar screeners can spot, are only post-fact. In other words , they can only explain where and how someone lied only after they know that the person lied. Moreover, the statistics are not great with these liar spotters. Even if a liar spotter predicted 75/100 liars, that would mean that every 1/4 person they would call a liar when he actually isn’t, which is a terrible consequence. Imagine if every 1/4 person in prison was not guilty..

  13. I recently watched Pamela Meyer's 2011 TED Talk, posted Oct. 13, 2011 on the "TED" YouTube channel, titled "How to spot a liar." It was a very interesting and informative 15-20 minute video. Not long after I watched this documentary. In fact, I watched it because YouTube suggested it as I watched Meyer's TED Talk. And at one point in "Missing 411" an audio recording of an interview with Deorr Kunz Jr's grandfather is played. … All I'll say is this, if I'm to take what I learned from Meyer's ("delightful" duping, distancing) TED Talk (link: at face value, and assume it to be plausible sound psychological science, well, then Grandpa certainly knows a whole lot more than his audio interview played in the movie would imply on the surface.

  14. Being an empathy is great and not so much. I actually feel what people are saying. Great at spotting liers, but also those hiding great pain. The latter isn't so great.

  15. I think this level of binary oversimplification is genuinely dangerous. "Subject X shook his head 'no' while providing his alibi, so he is our murderer."* This is the kind of thing police and prosecutors learn at seminars during business trips to Hawaii, from which some of them return believing they are now human lie detectors. Bring on the wrongful convictions and coerced confessions.

    Naturally, every example the presenter provides to support her argument is a clip of someone we know, in hindsight, was lying. How else to show the behavior of someone telling a lie? Still, it's childishly blatant confirmation bias. "Look at this person we know is lying. See how he/she does what I just told you is a dead giveaway?"

    "Look at this woman we know murdered her children. See her lack of proper affect. Check out her Grinch-Who-Stole-Christmas smile at the end, which we've highlighted in a freeze-frame for emphasis."

    For business purposes, it might be okay to believe there exists a simple algorithm by which we can separate truth-tellers from liars. At worst, we might decline a productive deal because we incorrectly determined a potential partner was lying. (Maybe she smiled for a split second when saying, "Of course you'll retain your current position.") But if this presenter's advice is strictly for business purposes, perhaps she should have made that assertion early and frequently (and leaned less heavily on examples related to criminal proceedings). These TED videos do, after all, end up on YouTube and thus all over the Internet, frequently without context.

    Hearing the audience's applause at the end of this video, I did find myself in agreement with one of the presenter's early assertions: A lie is a collaborative act. The audience wanted to believe the presenter, and it did.

    Click on that link and once you land on the page, click where it says "i am not a robot" and then you redirected to the you Tube video/things that shows YOU..

  17. When you lie you have to be creative, therfore use the right side of the brain. The opposite sides of the brain move the opposite bodily functions, therefore a liar will gesture with the left hand or face to the left.

  18. 1. The next thing I say is a lie.
    2. My previous statement was not true.
    3. Actually, the first thing I said is a lie.
    4. I didn't mean what I said at the very beginning.
    5. Ain't that the truth.

  19. "The bible"
    Psalm 13

    Psalm 14 (KJV)

    Psalm 15»

    Psalm 14 King James Version (KJV)

    14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

  20. 0:52: "Ever since I wrote that book "Liespotting", nobody wants to meet me in person anymore."
    I'm not sure if I should believe that. Is the truth a joke or is a joke no lie?
    2:42: "Last year saw 997 billion $ in corporate fraud in the US alone."
    How can she know?
    4:52: " If you are an average married couple, you are going to lie to your spouse one in every ten interactions"
    And unmarried couples lie at every third interaction. That rises the questions:
    a) how does she get her statistics?
    b) is she paranoid?
    7:10: "Trained lie spotters get the truth 90% of the time.The rest of us we are only 54% accurate." Why not 53.8%?
    I assume the capacity to spot lies follows a normal distribution. At any rate not a line at zero with two exceptions at 90% and 54% chance of lie spotting.
    Thanks god her talk was not about critical thinking.

  21. 99% of people in comments:- idiots saying this presentation is a lie
    0.5% of people in comments:- giving percent composition of comments(incl me)
    0.5%:- people who actually appreciate the video(also me).

  22. It's unfair when people assume what others say or even mean because what I say and what you hear may not be what I am saying.

  23. im happy to say that I have nothing to hide and I don't have any need to lie, im not perfect, but lying isnt part of my daily habits, I haven't had to lie since I was a kid really.

  24. Ok, you take a pseudo science and you tell people – hey everybody, as if we don't already have super low social trust and social alienation, where nobody trusts anyone and rapists are lurking everywhere, now you must also learn this pseudoscience so you can have even fewer friends and spend more time alone.

  25. I use distancing words when referring to someone I don't like, so her example of Bill Clinton referring to Monica Lewinsky as, "That woman," is not good.

  26. Lying is ingrained in human nature. Romans 3:10 as it is written:

    “None is righteous, no, not one;

    11 no one understands;

    no one seeks for God.

    12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

    no one does good,

    not even one.”

    13 “Their throat is an open grave;

    they use their tongues to deceive.”

    “The venom of asps is under their lips.”

    14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”

    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;

    16 in their paths are ruin and misery,

    17 and the way of peace they have not known.”

    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

  27. When I was two and my mum was looking after my new born brother I used to climb on to the top of the sofa and act like I was going to jump off. I apparently really wanted the attention XD

  28. I guess what she's saying is this: Robbie Parker (father of a kid slain at the SandyHook event) laughing out loud immediately before taking the podium to talk about his child's death would be a form of duping delight. If what she says is to be believed, then I must assume that the SandyHook shooting was just a psy-op that never took place.

  29. A very nice wasted Ted talk lol.
    You want to know who to never trust?
    Is exactly these people, people like her.
    Who study these humans behavior are the ones who know it best and exploit it to their advantages.
    Liar are very easy to spot. EVERY SINGLE TIME, its simply that people allow them to lie for their own sake.
    Because they don't want to lose that person.
    Because they also lied and feel guilty or even.
    Because they don't want to be alone.
    Because other 26346234 reason.

    Lies are not bad in the eyes of society, instead society Hymn to liar, but only the good quality one, and they hate the bad liar because they get caught and raise suspicions on the good liar.
    in my eyes, the 2 mother were both lying, one was a very bad actor and the other was a very good one.
    But could just be that both were honest, and just had different life stories, one was more empathic the other not at all.
    There is no way you can't spot a lie. If you don't is because deep down.. you don't want to.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *